This week we chat with Eric John, the Vice President of the Media Center at the IAB (Internet Advertising Bureau) at the IAB's NewFronts, which is the world's largest digital content marketplace that gives media buyers a first look at that content from the biggest names in media and entertainment. Eric shares with us some of the top trends in the marketplace and what's going on with the convergence of digital and television.
Eric John leads IAB’s Video Center of Excellence, a dedicated unit within the IAB whose mission is to simplify the video supply chain, providing best practices and education for brands, agencies, and media companies to drive continued growth through the evolving convergence of television and digital video. Eric drives the center’s efforts in the development of market-making research, industry standards and best practices and buyer/seller terms and conditions. Before joining the IAB, Eric led digital services and strategy at the Alliance for Audited Media and the MPA. Eric also served as global director of publisher marketing at Nokia, managing the company’s world-wide mobile app developer ecosystem. Prior to Nokia, Eric launched and led advertiser brand engagement solutions for Yahoo!, creating advanced, data-driven video, mobile and interactive campaigns for brands such as Pepsi, Loreal and Nikon. Eric began his career in internet advertising at DoubleClick (Google) where he served in business and product development within the DART for Publishers (DFP) and DART for Advertisers (DFA) business units where he launched the industry’s first post-click measurement tools. Eric is an alumnus of Miami of Ohio (BA) and Indiana University (MA) and is a graduate of Columbia University’s Product Management Program.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi everybody. And welcome to the tech cat show. This is Lori H. Schwartz and I am here with the fabulous Eric Johns, who is VP of the media center at the IAB and Eric it's a huge week or two for the IAB. This is the new fronts, 2021 coming out of the crazy year. And you guys are managing to pull off a fabulous week of great presentations from all the great publishers and studios and networks who are showcasing their work, uh, to potential buyers. Um, and I've learned so much, um, the last few days, lots of great trends. I want to dig into them with you. Um, some of the things that are really popping out when you get to see what everybody's offering. So first Eric, tell us a little bit about yourself, give us a background and how you ended up in this, in this great, uh, in this great gig.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It is a great gig. So, um, I've been, uh, at IB for about five years, started out my tenure here, running the video center of excellence just about six months ago. We launched what we're calling now, the media center. And so video and the fast growing fast moving audio space is under that umbrella as well. All with the mission of, of rising all boats in the, in the bigger Omni media consumer, uh, you know, cross across device, across content, uh, trend that we're all riding. And so, yeah, this past that we are right now in the midst of the new fronts, this is our 13th, sorry, this is our, this is now our 13th year. So we have a, a young teenager of, uh, of an event with us. And then we gotta get this guy a driver's license. And then next week is the podcast up-fronts now in its seventh year.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And, uh, it's been, what, what is really kind of extraordinary is, is, you know, we're, my focus is on the scaled media opportunities at IB and podcasting this year is now literally on the opposite side of the coin, all in response to what buyers have been telling us, which is the big trend, the larger trend is about audience-based buying and really reaching consumers in whatever content or device they're listening or watching. And so, um, it's really gonna be interesting to see how this continues to evolve, you know, with video, uh, on the big, you know, big, big spend, big, big, uh, you know, media consumption platforms, but then podcasts coming up quickly as well.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, I think also we're at such an interesting moment with audio, with the success of clubhouse, um, and all of those sort of, you know, and Twitter spaces and all those things, but what's going to happen next when we go back to driving to work again and all these things. So it'll be really interesting, but the tagline IBS a new this year is living the stream. So tell, tell us a little bit about what that means.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I think it's just, it, it kind of, uh, reflects what we've all been living, you know, over the past 16 months, you know, the horrors of the pandemic and what that meant is we were all kind of locked down. I think, um, you know, obviously streaming media, uh, especially in the CTV space has really become a dominant, you know, dominant media consumption, trend and pattern. And we've seen that, um, we just released, uh, today our video ad spend report and it's pretty clear, you know, buyers have, have totally, totally, uh, latched onto the reality that, that, uh, consumers are streaming. They're screaming to the big screen in the living room and we're seeing a rebirth of television as it becomes increasingly digital addressable. And, um, you know, I think what you, what we've been hearing over the past two days of presentations is that, you know, the S uh, from a publisher perspective, the big story is that is that this is a, um, you know, for brands and buyers, the ability to reach consumers who are no longer on, uh, you know, linear TV, CTV, and streaming represents not only an incremental opportunity, but actually in, in the case of some brands and their, you know, their future audiences streaming is the only reach that you may actually have depending on the product.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So we're kind of a bellwether moment with, uh, with streaming and CTV.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah. And you said a couple of really interesting things. Um, first person, I want to define CTV because as someone that talks tech a lot and, uh, walks people around the consumer electronics show, CTV used to be a technology platform for us. So that was connected TV, and it wasn't a buying platform. It was a nother screen that was coming out, you know, another channel kind of, it wasn't its own platform that it really has emerged in the last two days in my ears, hearing all these presentations. And then you also have fast, which I'd love for you to define. And then we also have, um, the MVP PD, which is another expression, and they're all subtly different and mean different things, but maybe you can help us understand all the, these alphabet words, what they really mean. Cause we're talking about streaming, but there's different business models and audience behaviors around all these things.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah. So yeah, we, we tend to, you know, in this ad tech and media tech world, we, we love our acronyms, but you know, really what we all need to be paying attention to is for consumers, it's all television. And, um, uh, so where people tend to get tripped up, yes, CTV is an acronym, meaning connected TV, but within that kind of device specific term, you've got smart TVs. And then you've got TVs that are now internet enabled through a dongle, or you could also be talking about a household that's connecting their, their, uh, their television viewing through a gaming device. So all of that represents, you know, an internet connected television. Um, and what w what you'll still hear as well is the term OTT over the top content, which, um, you know, is also continuously debated, but it is more about that term over the top is more about the content that is distributed across these streaming television platforms. And, uh, can also, however, include content TV, like content that plays out on mobile as well as desktop. And so when people say OTT, they describe, they're just basically describing TV, like content that's playing out, uh, you know, across multiple platforms. CTV, obviously it's a big screen connected internet connected device.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Now what I have in, uh, in my kitchen and I did this to myself and I, I know I have, but I have a, um, a Android, uh, you know, a, an Android stick, right. A fire TV stick. And I also have an actually that's a Chromecast and I have a, um, uh, LG TV. So, um, the operating system does not like it when I switched to the stick. It wants me to watch it's fast content. And no matter what I do, it serves that up for us. So tell us a little bit about that, because that's a whole, it's like, there's so much content there.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Let me explain that for a second is so fast. Um, people use that term as free ad supported television fast. And so that's essentially a, uh, uh, a service like to be like Pluto, where you're, they're basically serving up content for free, or if you have a Roku device, the Roku channel, you don't pay for that. You are consuming content that they have aggregated. Um, and, uh, and so that falls into the realm of, of free ad supported services. You also mentioned virtual MVPD. So, you know, that's a kind of a historical term with a, with a digital, uh, precursor, um, MVPD is, is multi video programming, uh, you know, services or platforms. That's the classic pay cable, TV, um, services that you would get your bundle of content of virtual MVPD is essentially through an internet platform creating that, that, uh, aggregation of content.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And an example of that would be a YouTube TV or Hulu with live. So you're taking live linear content, serving it on a video, on a digital video aggregated platform. And that is a virtual MVPD. All this is like, you know, it kind of points to what you also described, which is you got your LG TV, and then you put a cast or, or, or Roker device in there. Sometimes they play nice. Sometimes they don't. And, uh, you know, for a consumer, it can be really a challenge, um, on multiple levels, just, you know, getting the content using which interface in which platform to access content and, uh, you know, so I spend a lot of my time in my family as the help desk
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Right now, you mentioned something that is, it was a theme in the last two days, and that's incremental, incremental reach. Um, maybe you can talk to us about why is that so important because many of the publishers mentioned mentioned that, and when you hear the word incremental, you don't think, well, that's not a big deal, but it actually is in this world. So maybe you can share with us why that's so important.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's huge for, uh, brands because they're, they've, they're used to spending every, and, and tracking or trying to track every, the result of every dollar and making sure that wherever it goes, they're trying to avoid duplicate duplicative reach. So what is really fascinating about this new form of television, it is purely digital. And so the technology, the, um, you know, the ability to understand if you are reaching an audience on this app, in this platform, uh, you know, and watching this content, there is the possibility to actually know that that same consumer already has been reached in a linear, in a linear program. And some of the platforms, for instance, Roku is offering this Samsung is offering this because they can understand what's happening at a device level and at a, at a content level, that ability to tell an advertiser, Hey, you already reached them over on your linear program.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
You don't have to serve that same ad over there. Now you can reach them incrementally, um, in, in this content and in this environment. So that is a big deal for advertisers. Um, you know, and I think that what's kind of interesting, you know, for me as a, as a, as a guy that lives and breathes this tech all day long is that's a promise. That is, uh, you know, if you're in one particular platform yeah. You know, you can accomplish that if you're just buying on Roku or just buying on Samsung, the trick is to understand that across these platforms, that's where things get hairy. And that's where this whole conversation about identity across platforms is such a big deal. And it's, it's, it's not easy. And, uh, as we're headed into a new privacy by default era, it's not going to get any easier. Let's, let's talk about
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That because that's, I know a very exciting topic in the advertising world right now. Some people call it the cookie apocalypse. Um, but this is this idea now that, that we can't that third parties that tracking well, you, you explained it better. Cause you're obviously in the, in this business, but we're not going to be tracked in the same way we used to be. So that data that used to get reported back to advertisers won't be available anymore. So now they have to find a new way. Right. So give us the context for that.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
All right. So the, uh, yeah, the cookie apocalypse, it has been spoken about for years and it is now upon us, um, you know, Safari wa and, um, and, uh, and, and Firefox, they made that that's that switched to not supporting third-party cookies a while back now, Chrome is also, I'm about to make that real in, in January. Uh, so I think the, um, I think the challenge is going to be for, for web based advertising, you know, how you reach that, that, how do you understand that, uh, when you saw somebody on this device or this platform, whether you can reach them again. So it's going to cause fundamental shifts in how, you know, if you're an app, uh, if you're a web based, especially, you know, in, in the landscape of mobile, how do you reach, how do you build your campaigns and understand attribution and then remarket?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So the other interesting part is we're talking about cookies. Now, the same thing has happened, uh, even in, in the past few days, as Apple has released 14 dot five version of their operating system, which now makes the, uh, the Apple IDFA, um, deprecated as well. So you are basically having to permission any app to, uh, to, to track you. Um, you know, in the context of that, of that platform, of course, they can do it. They can use their own, uh, identity solution within the Apple platform and within their own ad ecosystem. But if you're a third party app, you need to get permission now to, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, attribute and track people in your app.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
So we're going to really see the rise of a few kingdoms that
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Unfortunately, I think you're right. You know, I think it's gonna, it's, it's the, the walled gardens are getting the walls are getting higher, but it's also driving another trend, which is, you know, we're talking about third party cookies, but it's not going away is the permission that a consumer, um, provides to a brand or a publisher, if you are a registered user of, uh, you know, saying New York times or wall street journal or, or, you know, your local newspaper website, that is a first party relationship you have with that publisher, that's not going, um, what's going away is for instance, you know, if, if you are reading that content on an app like Facebook, Facebook, previously would have allowed you to, to retarget that reader on other places. And so, um, you know, the first party relationship that you have with content, the first party relationship that you have with brands can still be leveraged. And what it's really causing as a trend is that brands and publishers are in a real drive to capture more, to really ensure that the value exchange with the consumer is clear and that they're really building upon that first party, uh, relationship and data that they can continue to leverage.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
So it's gonna, um, actually I think, um, to your point, um, cause some creative thinking around storytelling that happens too, right? Cause everything really needs to be relevant. You have to have context.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah. And that, and that's true. And so the, uh, you know, with, with the deprecation of these cookies and these mobile IDs, you know, I think the, uh, contextual advertising has also gotten a rebirth and because it's always been true, you know, if you're reading, if you're consuming content, you know, especially, you know, take, take, for example, DIY content, I'm learning how to, how you have to fix up a pipe. It's a huge, huge value in having an ad for Lowe's appear while here, while you're consuming that content about how to fix the pipe or in the context of, uh, you know, any content, there's a lot of signal to be provided based on what you're watching. And so, um, you know, brands are, are, are really focusing on that. The other thing, and this, this came out in the video ad spend study that we just had. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And you, and you have a lot of great data points there. So share, share with us about your study. Cause that was, that was a mind blow.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah. It was a lot of really suggest everyone go to ib.com and, uh, and find the video ad spend, study the other important signal in that, in that, uh, report. And this was a survey of brands end buyers and where they're placing their bets, what platforms and formats, what they're telling us in that study is that they're really expecting to lean on publishers to solve for them on the first party data side of the equation. They're looking for publishers to make it easier for brands to, uh, to, uh, essentially match their first party audiences within that publisher environment. They're looking for, um, for publishers to enrich their understanding of their audiences with, with, uh, with, you know, better use of, of content data platforms. And then they're also looking what you're going to continue to hear more and more about is, is the notion of a clean room, which is in an environment where brands, publishers and, uh, and, and DSPs demand side platforms and supply set, sorry, supply side platforms come together to transact around around consumers. There's going to be a, uh, every body in this ecosystem is going to have to increasingly work with those clean room environments to safely and in a non, you know, privacy invasive way, provide the context and at an audience level that brands want.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So are we going to have then a one clean room or is it going to be trading desk trading desks, trading desks, trading desk trading desks? Because it seems like, uh, just in the presentations we saw and there's no nothing wrong with this, that each one of them was presenting their own solution for that.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah. You just kinda nailed it. There's that, that is a, there's a lot of platforms out there with the word one in front of it.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I think we need one easy button, but, uh, I think what we're the reality is that there is going to be, uh, multiple identity, uh, management approaches. Um, and, and that's just going to be the reality. And, uh, I think the opera, the chance, or the opportunity I think is this is something that IB has been, um, you know, driving a lot with our project remark. There is an opportunity to create a common framework for identity that is privacy safe, um, you know, authenticated by the consumer and managed ultimately by the consumer as well. But that's going to take a lot of handholding together between buyers and brands. Um, we're not there yet, but there is a lot of work on that.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And then we could have a whole conversation about that too, around a rating point that, you know, works across digital and linear, but we won't go down that that's another whole, but so talk to me about some of the points that came out of your report, your video ad spend important. What was the, what were the biggest insights for you?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I, I would say, you know, since we're all seeing the rebirth of television in the form of CTV, um, it was fascinating to see that more than a third 35% of buyers are expecting to increase their CTV spend in this year of 2021. So that is, that's pretty much a, a vote of confidence for continuing to reach consumers in this big screen direct directly engagable way. Um, I think the other thing is, you know, there's a 73% of those CTB buyers are shifting their budgets to CTV out of broadcast and cable. That's just the reality that, um, you know, as, as cable cutting increases and, and traditional linear continues to decline, where are they going to get that supply? Where are they going to get that inventory in that audience? It has to be in these, in these streaming environments with CTV, you know, is driving the bus.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Um, you know, the other kind of big important message was that why CTV is so important for brands it's, it's, it's brand safe, it's trusted. And that is a big, important thing too, in a landscape where there's been really some challenges for brands to align themselves with, with, uh, content in a pretty divisive media environments, TV feels safe in a lot of ways. Um, and I think the, uh, I, I would say to that, that the, uh, you know, this is, uh, the other fact that this is a bellwether moment is that, um, you know, we've seen now just thinking about video advertising overall, what, what we've now reached is 53% of overall video spend, which includes linear TV now moving to digital video, which in which is comprised of,
Speaker 1 (21:36):
She, did you just say 50%,
Speaker 2 (21:40):
53%. So this is kind of in, this is an important moment and an importance that, because it literally means that, you know, we always talked about convergence, well, this is the moment where the convergence tips to the digital,
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Wow. That that's a mind blow. And I do want to go nananana to a few people. I know, but
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Like, I mean, and, and that same time, there is a lot of viewing happening in traditional religion. And so it's important for brands and buyers to understand, you know, the power of digital is actually to understand how you can manage across all of this.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Well, how many channels story, how you follow that path? Um, uh, just a few more questions before I let you go. Another, um, big, big trend that I noticed this year was the mentioning of AR augmented reality. That's something I've been talking about for years. All of my colleagues in the emerging media space, I've been talking about it forever. I have never heard it at a upfront of any kind before. I know they mentioned it last year when snap, uh, sort of lit up their solutions, but this was mentioned by quite a number of the publishers. Um, so not just a thing, it's not just a cool halo press thing. This is like really being built into a lot of offerings. So can, can you talk about like what lit this up? Is this pandemic driven?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Ah, yeah, so I would say, you know, AR is the technology that a lot, not a lot of people understand, but the fact is it's in all of our pockets. It's just literally every iOS and Android device that you buy today can support AR. And so that's why snap really put the training wheels on everybody to understand what augmented reality, literally seeing an overlay in top of the built world, is it into a truly immersive experience and why it has why this year it's people are talking about it a lot is because this is e-commerce and shopability have become table stakes, AR powered shoppable experiences are going to revolutionize the way brands and retail is conducted. And you can see it now in one of the presentations, someone talked about an AR pop-up store. We've seen that before talked about, but now you're really seeing brands beginning to understand that they need to learn, test and learn and understand how they can enable consumers, especially with AR how, you know, have you bought a pair of war of eyeglasses lately? Warby Parker revolutionized it? My, my wife just prepare. She went on, she tried five different pairs with are using our mobile phone, literally walked right in the app. That's a game changer. You know, you go on Amazon, you go on pretty much any shopping platform AR enables you to try the, the whatever furniture or, or, you know, clothing.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah. I love that. And again, as someone that was looking at this 15 years ago, um, in, in the IPG lab, in the lab, in, uh, in a tech lab where it was really considered emerging, it's taken a long time, but it's real now. Um, and I love that, that story. Um, last thing I wanted to just talk to you about was just, there seemed to be for me, a real focus on, on the micro targeting and personalization, which is definitely a spill out of what we were just talking about in terms of being able to find that consumer. Um, so how, how will this personalization really manifest? Am I really going to adjust? Um, am I going to be able to find content that really is perfect for me? Because in my mind we S we still are very challenged with discoverability and you're so right.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And if you're, if you're on a Samsung or a Roku where they own the banner, great, they can direct me, but in most of these platforms, I'm still, what do I watch? Where can I find it? We're all Googling the show we want to watch and seeing what comes up. Oh, it's on Hulu. Oh, it's on Netflix. So we'll, will this micro-targeting help us find things, you know, or, or am I still going to be putting on Facebook? What should I watch tonight? You know, because that's the pandemic thing this year was, what are you guys watching? What should I watch? You know, so what's going to solve all this is this, is that what the personalization is about?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
You know, I think, um, personalization people and micro-targeting, that has a lot of connotations in the advertising space. What you're, what w what we're kind of talking about here is the consumer experience for content at a, at a core level. And I think God, we all just want the easy button. And, um, you know, I think that there's, the, the water cooler is not going away. You know, as we all have been sharing, you know, what we love to love to, you know, stream, but discovering where to watch it, that is such a Greenfield opportunity. And, um, you know, and I think part of the challenge is just the fragmentation. At the very beginning, we were talking about, you have a, you have a device, you know, this connected TV device, then you have the ducks, then you have what is connecting it to the
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Dongle, the dongle, because by saying
Speaker 2 (27:12):
The platform that you're aggregated, all the, all the apps that you want to watch, then you go into the app. Each one of those things is a layer of, of authentication, you know, and what's, it's getting better. I mean, when I go into Hulu awesomely, I can pick my content choice through my profile. I don't want to see what my daughter is, is watching. I have no interest in seeing the bachelor again and again and again, but, um, what is awesome is that, is that, that is, that is where we're personalization and content tailored to the, to the actual viewer matters. But I think from a, from a advertising perspective, it's still household, you know, micro-targeting in this world of CTV that it's not one to one like you and I grew up with it is not closed loop, one-to-one marketing. It is pretty much household level and who they're marketing to is often who has registered that, that Roku or registered that, that smart TV. And then if you're lucky and you get into a particular app or a particular, you know, a partial MVPD, so that tailoring of the ad and content experience should be taking place as well. That's the promise of, you know, the viewer actually informing what they see for both. And, uh, like I said on it somewhere else, you know, the days of, uh, of, uh, of a dog loving family or a dog owning family, still seeing cat through dads that should go away, you know, we should be able to fix that.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And I won't see the same pair of shoes following me for weeks.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
So this also has to do that over frequency problem. Here's another trend that we heard again and again, to play in yesterday is, you know, everyone is talking about the fixing that issue of, of, of ad frequency. And it's being, it is improving within these individual environments. Is it improving across them sometimes? Yes. But the reality is buyers are having to buy across these different interfaces and platforms and they don't always talk to each other. So that's where you see a lot of examples of, Hey, I bought that impression here. Well, you also that bought that impression to that same viewer over there. So that's where as an industry, we need to make it easier
Speaker 1 (29:26):
For sure. Um, I, I know I could talk to you for a couple more hours, but I have to let you go cause it's a busy week for you. Um, just, um, talk to us a little bit just about the IAB. If people are interested in learning more about the organization and how they can get involved. So the IB is
Speaker 2 (29:42):
A interactive, interactive advertising Bureau. We've been around since the first days of the banner. We're the business association for digital media go to iab.com. We have a lot of great resources for brands, for buyers and publishers, including the video ad spend report that, uh, that we talked about today. Um, and, uh, just go to ib.com search video, and you'll see the video center of excellence, the audio center, and, uh, my other compatriots at IB, the data and programmatic center and, uh, the experience center that is focused entirely on these new and emerging things like AR and shopability et cetera. That's all waiting for you@ib.com. Please join us as a member if you haven't yet, uh, as a, you know, as a publisher or an agency, and, uh, love to see you.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And, um, I, I will say that you guys are also out there fighting the fight to create standards, to make it easier for everybody to navigate this space. Exactly. Which is wonderful. And also just kudos to the event team, because a it's a really fun platform. You've created, there's a ton of chatter happening in this virtual platform. So who knows if you will completely go live next year. Um, but lots of chatting happening, lots of old friends seeing each other, and then you have a virtual marketplace to where people can actually, um, buyers and sellers can get together and actually conduct business. Um, so virtual works, um, and you guys are really showing us how to do that, um, in a, in a time when selling and buying has to still happen, um, even if we can't be around each other and just the last thing. So this is the new front, the podcast is next week, and then you're going to be doing more new fronts in the fall because I know the sales cycle is 364 days of the week or something.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
That's exactly right. The, uh, you know, the reality is the marketplace has increasingly been, uh, forced again by the pandemic increasingly flexible. You know, we w we're used to this traditional dance of the spring upfronts, but the reality is that content is always coming online and publishers have great, great, uh, opportunities. They want to present to buyers in the fall in front of the Q3 and Q4 spends. So we're extending the new fronts into the fall timeframe in September. And so we're looking forward to bringing folks back to hear all that's changed in the five months between now and then, and a lot will change. I'm sure,
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Sure. I mean, if anything, uh, we all understand what can happen in five months now. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, Eric, John VP of the media center at IB, thank you so much for taking your time out to talk to me, especially this week, the digital upfronts 2021 through the IAB. This is Lori H. Schwartz your tech. Thank you so much for talking to us. So interesting. So many great trends and so much great content coming at us. Thank you, Eric. Thanks, Lori. Great to see you.